In February 2022, my friend and client, Elizabeth Stadtlander, Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, invited me to participate on her weekly show. She is known as “The Rebellious Counselor,” providing counseling services, nationwide. She is located in the Miami area, and her website is www.Actuation-Counseling.com.
I’m including our conversation because it offers answers to many questions around what it means to be psychic, spirituality and religion, and more.
Q: Can you tell us a little bit about what it means to be a psychic?
Rosalie: I think that the most inclusive title would be “intuitive consultant.” That’s what I tell people I am. Sometimes people hear the word “psychic” and they’re like, “OK, you’re one of those,” you know? Really what an intuitive or a psychic is doing is picking up on energy, reading the energy, technically the information that’s contained in the energy.
All of us have the ability to pick up on energy. Right? Someone walks in a room and you know almost right away, “I’m digging that person,” or we put up a stop sign, because we know it’s not a good fit. Everyone has that natural ability. Intuitives lean into that and read that information that’s in the energy.
I came to this work and really enjoyed giving people psychic readings, but my style and delivery is a bit unique. I’m asking Spirit what’s most helpful for you to know right now. I come from a place of how can I help this person feel empowered and remind them of the choices that they have?” Because this is all free will, baby. It’s all free will.
You can change up anything at any time. I don’t believe things are destined, I don’t believe that someone can foretell your future. I don’t believe you can fortune tell. I believe that as a psychic or someone who is able to work with energy, what we can do is illuminate your choices and also help to show some things to you that might be hidden for you. Because when you’re going through something, you have no emotional attachment to it.
And you have an outcome you really want. Sometimes it feels like you’re not going to be able to get it or you’re running up against challenges or roadblocks. What someone like me would do, we would feel into the energy around your situation and help bring you to a point where you feel alive and connected and empowered. That’s how I approach everything I do.
From a mentor standpoint, I meet people on their path, especially those just waking up to their gifts. I offer guidance so they don’t feel overwhelmed, or scared. Often, I am acting as a sounding board.
I think traditionally when we hear the word “psychic,” just like with any profession, including mine, people have pre-conceived notions. In the case of a therapist, maybe some old person, looking at you over their glasses, analyzing you. I think it puts people off coming to therapy, and why I call myself “The Rebellious Counselor.”
When I think about the word “psychic,” there are probably certain things that will pop into people’s minds and their associations with the word. If I ask someone, “have you ever spoken to a psychic,” they’ll say “I don’t want to know what’s going to happen in my future.”
So, I guess the question is if somebody is coming to you solely for a psychic reading, what does that look like?
First, let me say that I shared all of those ideas about what a psychic was before I stepped into my gift and started really practicing and embracing it.
I didn’t want to come out of the psychic closet and tell people that I’m psychic because my idea of a psychic was these folks that have this, what I’ve come to call, costuming. You know, this real posture: dressed in white flowing clothes, bathing in the river and howling at the full moon.
The whole crystal ball thing…
I thought, “I’m none of those things, I can’t be psychic.”
My idea of a psychic was attached to those ideas, and I’m anything but that. I’m flawed, I’m a mess, I’m amazing, I’m all the same things everyone else is and, so why would I be psychic?
When I finally realized that the stuff was just their costuming and how they choose to express their idea of what they think a psychic should look like, then I was like, “oh, okay.”
So a session with me, looks like… I will get ready for them ahead of time, I will kind of sit in stillness, and I’ll ask my guides, my Spirit Guides, to show me in my body (with energy) any messages that I can share with them. Say I’m getting ready for this person, and I get a tightness in my chest. I’ll write that down. Or I might get a funniness in my throat, and I’ll write that down. These are things for me to hold onto, and ask them during our session if there’s conversations they can’t have, or ask if they’re having trouble communicating their thoughts. Things like that.
As we talk, I start to connect with their energy and then, I’ll be really honest with you, stuff just starts coming out. I am connecting with their energy and what they need to know starts to come through me. I don’t check out, I don’t leave my body, but I just know what’s important for them to focus on. Or I’ll bring up the notes I took prior to the session beginning. As we start to talk a little bit, it won’t take long before I don’t have to ask many questions, I’ll really be in with the energy, and information just kind of drops into my head and I share it.
Like a conduit.
Right. I never leave my body, to be clear. I’m not in a trance state and something’s taking over. I turn off my attitude and my personality and my filter and I move them out of the way, as charming as they are.
I move that out of the way and I just let the information drop in and flow through so it becomes more about the message instead of the messenger. By the time we’re done, typically people have got some insight or some illumination they didn’t have before. I don’t predict outcomes, but what I do is, I say based on the energy right now, if you stay on the trajectory that you’re on, this is what is shown as a likely outcome. But I don’t predict the future, I don’t really give timelines because, as much as I’d love to, time is fluid, and time really only exists here in this dimension. It’s not really a currency that is used with the energies I’m working with.
Can you explain Spirit Guides; what are they? Do we all have them? How do we get to know them?
That topic could go on for an entire show. In a nutshell, we all have Spirit Guides. And they’re basically our invisible helpers. They’re with you your entire time that you’re here and doing your thing. You can ask them for help at any time and they will help guide you in the right direction.
For me, they don’t appear with physicality because they’re energy consciousness. When I’m doing a reading, I will ask my guides to show up and be present for me, and then they kind of flow the information to me.
Spirit Guides are really a topic that, it depends on your belief system; some people think that they’re like your guardian angels. I personally believe that when we’re on the other side before we get here, we’re part of soul tribes and we’re all energy consciousness. I think what happens is you decide to come in and do this crazy 3-D experiment, have fun and get crazy with it. Your Spirit Guides say, “Okay. If you’re going to be the brave one and go in, here’s our commitment to you. We’re going to be on call for you; we’ll help you remember all the stuff you know right now.”
I think when we get here [this dimension] we forget almost all of it. So they act a little like a lifeline. There was that show, “Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?” And you could make that phone call with your lifeline? They’re kind of like that. They’re your connection to the other side. And yes, we all have them.
When you’re working, are your spirit guides talking to your client’s spirit guides, like they’re having a conversation and then flowing information to you?
Every reading is permission-based. If someone comes to me and says, “Hey, I wanna know what my ex-boyfriend is thinking,” my response is that I don’t’ read minds because that’s a no-no. Talk about a violation – and I don’t even have that ability, by the way, and I don’t want it.
I have enough trouble with my own thoughts. I don’t want to be able to read minds.
But what I do is let my Spirit Guides know I want to bring information through for this person’s highest and best good. My guides could be having a conference with their guides, I can’t say with certainty.
Speaking of permission-based, I don’t walk around reading people when I’m in the grocery store. They didn’t give me their permission, so I don’t go around poking at them energetically. I am entertained when I see it on TV, but it’s not something I do.
Right. That would be so…
Let’s clear up the stigma. Psychics are not people who walk around and read everybody’s minds. They’re not people who can just get any information that they want.
I would agree.
I live in Los Angeles, as you know. And anytime I’m driving around, it doesn’t matter what neighborhood I’m in, there are storefronts with psychics everywhere.
I see that here too.
They have their little sandwich boards out front and a lot of them say “I’ll read your mind,” or, “I’ll read his mind for you.” That drives me nuts. None of that works for me on an ethical level. First off, you don’t have that person’s permission to read their mind, even if you could do it, which I don’t personally believe you can.
And here’s why I don’t’ think you can…because it’s permission-based and that person has to give you permission. And let’s say for a moment I didn’t have an ethical problem with it, and I had the ability to read someone’s mind for you. HOW does that help you?
Why does it matter what Bryan’s thinking? Keep the focus on you. What can we do to help you feel better? What can we do to help you step into your power? Because this idea that I can only be happy when I know what he’s thinking or she’s thinking, or I need to know what’s going to happen… It’s so not true.
In fact, that’s creating dependency and codependency, and that’s stripping you of your power. It doesn’t matter what Bryan thinks or what Julie thinks or what your boss thinks, let’s talk about you. What can we do to help you step into your power and do things that are good for you? That’s my focus, it’s not on what Randy’s thinking or Jennifer’s thinking, you know what I mean? Like, let’s keep this about you.
I think that’s an issue for all caregivers, especially when it comes to mental health.
I think it’s important to hold empathy and hold space for them, and allow them to go ahead and vent. I get that. But, my job is to help you see what your choices are in this situation, where your power is, right? And if we can just soften some of the edges…
When the “event” happens to us, we get that initial gut punch, but the more you keep replaying that story incident, the more you keep that in your vibration and the more it keeps coming back, and it’s like the gut punch just happened. It’s like you’re getting punched in the gut again and again and again every time you tell that story.
Let’s go ahead and tell the story, get it out and then let’s get the volume down, so we can start to work from there. And you can’t push people along too, too quickly because this is a process, right? I do have empathy. One of my hard boundaries though is if someone continually comes back to me on the same topic repeatedly. I put the brakes on and I let them know we need to take a break or try to refocus them to another type of healing modality.
The bottom line is…you can’t keep revisiting and asking the same things over and over. You have to give things some time and space.
Let’s say that I have a great session with you and we talk about what seems to be on the horizon, or what you’re working on. The energy feels good and things are coming into alignment. You leave the session feeling empowered and great. But then you can’t maintain that feeling without another hit. So you come back the very next day, “Rosalie, check in for me! Am I making progress?” And then the next day. “What’s the progress like?”
Nope. I’m not about feeding dependencies; people have to trust and take a breath. The Universe needs a hot minute to hook you up.
That’s not healthy.
What you’re doing is obsessing, and you’re not giving enough time and space for things to come together, I mean, none of this is instant, this isn’t a magic button. Right? So, in an intuitive kind of coaching work I try to help them get to these milestones where they can concentrate and focus. Ideally, they also detach from the emotion for a bit. I want to get them focused on what is working so they’re feeling empowered and encouraged. This is not, again, an instant fix on anything in life. I wish there was an easy button.
When you say that you read energy, could you explain it to us?
That’s a big one. Let me see. We are sensory beings, right? As human beings we’re sensory, and we’ve got the five senses that we know about, but we all have more senses than that. We’re all very perceptive and we’re picking up on vibrations and energy. Quantum physics will tell you that the entire universe is made up of packets of energy. We are all constantly working with energy and, it’s everywhere.
Someone who is kind of stepping into their psychic gifts, which I believe we all have, has just got a heightened awareness of the energy and the nuances in the energy and information in the energy.
I’ve been picking up people’s energy my entire life. I believe when you have trauma from childhood, which I did along with a million other people, you tend to be hyper-sensitive to your environment.
As to specifically reading energy on purpose, I learned to get very still and quiet. Maybe the best way to put it was I got into alignment. The more time I spent in alignment, the more I would notice energy outside of my own.
We all know that we put off of vibrations. We have energy coming out of our bodies, and we know that because if we put our hands on our chests and slowly pulled our hand away from our chest, you can feel the space between your hand and body. And there’s energy there. You can feel it.
At about twelve inches away from our chest, you start to feel it fading away, right? But there’s a zone right there where you can feel it, right? One day I decided to test out this theory that I had Spirit Guides and they were some form of energy. I thought, if I experience energy outside of myself, and I really feel it, I’ll know this isn’t just my imagination.
I said, “if I have a Spirit Guide, come on over. I want to feel your energy. I want to know you’re here.” So I felt around my own energy field, and then I turned my hand the opposite direction. And I kept feeling around until I felt resistance. When I felt that with my own hand, I couldn’t deny that my working theory was heading towards a conclusion.
Then to begin reading the energy in a more succinct way, what I considered a more useful way, I started to use automatic writing. I’d meditate for about three minutes, just long enough to quiet my brain, so it’d stop the monkey chatter. As soon as I came out of the meditation I would write down on a piece of paper, “What’s in my best interest to know right now?”
Then I would start to kind of doodle, so I would keep my hand busy, and then I would notice, a thought drop in, that’s the only way I can describe it. Because I was so quiet, I could notice as soon as the thought arrived, and it would be the answer to my question. I didn’t hear it with my ears, it just appeared in my consciousness. I would write exactly what came through. An entity didn’t take over my body, spirit didn’t jump in, I just cleared my chatter and paid attention to the thought that dropped in, and I started doing this for five to seven days. Eventually, I thought, “What if I just skip the writing part and I just start asking?”
I started doing it without the automatic writing and I started having conversations that I was pretty sure was with my Spirit Guides. Then I started to look at pictures of people and when I would look at a picture, I would get a sensation in my body. For instance, I was looking at a photo of this woman and my chest started to hurt, like my lungs got real tight for a second, and then I felt overwhelmed with sadness. I came to find out that this woman had COPD and her sadness was because she had lost a child.
I made a very conscious effort to explore this, like it was a mystery. I wanted to know if it was real. It took me a while to get over the idea that maybe this was my imagination. But then I put it into practice and here we are.
Basically, energy is information? Would that be accurate to say?
If you learn how to read energy, you’re actually reading information, and how energy line comes through, could be in many different ways to our senses. It could be by thinking a thought, or feeling things in your body or, getting images of something…
Limitless ways, yes.
I do just wanna say this one thing because I know that there are folks out there who think “psychics are full of it,” right? I get that.
The biggest thing I hear, as if it’s evidence to prove I’m a fraud…if I’m psychic, how come I don’t know the lottery numbers? My answer is that any legitimate psychic has ethics and a code of conduct; and if I were to ask my Spirit Guides to tell me what the winning lottery numbers are, I’d hear laughter. I’m not going to get the lottery numbers unless it’s in my highest and greatest good. And you know what? It’s probably not in my highest and greatest good to win the lottery.
All I can do is ask for what’s in my highest and greatest good and also the person I’m reading. I don’t have access to all the information in the Universe. My Spirit Guides don’t flip on a movie switch where I get to watch your life. I can only ask and have information about the things you granted me permission to know.
Say we’re having a session and suddenly, “oh, I can see beyond you and see your past and everything you’ve ever done.” (Rolling eyes). It’s not a crystal ball where I see your entire life, I get access to what is appropriate for the session.
I know it’s easy to kind of blow it off, and have people say, “You people are kooks.” Maybe we are, we have to be a little bit kooky, right? Most psychics operate with integrity and we treat our sessions as confidential, and I also have enough clients, I don’t remember what we talked about. You’re not going to have to worry about me telling your secrets because, I’m not meant to retain that information.
How do you define Spirituality?
There’s you and then there’s everything else, in the entire Universe.
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk. Lights on, cameras off, we’re done!
Do you mean the connection between us and the universe?
I mean, exactly what you just said and really the more simple that you keep it, the better, in my opinion. Here’s the thing, I was raised in a Roman Catholic household. The God that I grew up with in my church was the God you’re supposed to fear, it was the fire and brimstone version.
I didn’t feel close to God, I felt afraid of God, you know? I felt like everything I did, I was being judged, and I didn’t feel any connection. I started going through the steps I was supposed to take to reach confirmation, but I couldn’t do it. What I had realized as a small child was there were all these people between me and God. This hierarchy. I just knew I’d never get there.
I wasn’t having any fun while I was trying to get there anyway. I was having to go to confession every week and tell God’s friend, the priest what a loser I was and how I committed all these sins. I was living in a cloud of shame and I felt no connection to God. I felt like I was in big trouble, you know?
So naturally I thought, well…if I’m gonna go to Hell for the rest of eternity, I’m gonna really have some fun and break some rules while I’m here.
The point is, I understood why religion was introduced to me, it was meant to be a tenet of faith and something to make me feel strong, but it made me feel weak and it made me feel like I had to be a people pleaser. Which caused all kinds of problems in my life.
As I started looking for a place to have faith, I started stepping into thoughts around “what if we’re all just part of the Universe? What if we’re all connected?”
What if there isn’t this deity, per se, but we’re all connected and if everything is energy? I started going down that rabbit hole and I realized that I am the center of the universe in my life. You’re the center of the universe in your life, right? We are meant to be having these expansive, amazing, beautiful, painful, fantastic experiences, all these different things, make up the mosaic of our lives.
And I believe that spirituality is really feeling love and compassion deeply for ourselves, because that shines out and touches everybody. It touches people you don’t even know, so to me spirituality is really the path to yourself and really being open and accepting of other people and their journey. We’re just having this amazing experience together, and it doesn’t mean I love everybody, I’m not love and light. I have serious boundaries, and people don’t get to cross those boundaries.
I do believe that it’s, you, me and then creator, source, whatever, it’s just without hierarchies. I’m open to it, like let’s have more of it, you know? I want to drink it in, I want to experience it. It’s very different to me than my religion I had because the religion made me feel like I was never going be part of the club. Ever. And with spirituality, I’m like, “Oh, I’m in the club. We’re all in the club. This is cool, it’s very inclusive.”
As a therapist who has always supposed to be helping other people and who’s spent her whole life trying to save and help everybody, it’s been a very wonderful experience for me to be like, “Oh actually have permission to make myself feel good too.” I think that we are taught backwards.
It’s kind of like a hierarchy, it’s the thing I was mentioning about the church. And that’s just my experience, and my experience doesn’t have to be everyone’s experience. The realization I came to was that I was always supposed to be people pleasing and if I’m not, God’s mad at me. Like well, you just screwed up again, so you have to start all over from the beginning.
I really got taught that people pleasing and doing whatever I had to do so that people would like me…you can imagine what my life looked like for a long time. I subscribed to the idea that I needed to make other people happy so they would like me. Can you imagine?
Yeah, I get it, I lived it my whole life.
I didn’t understand for a long time…so what if they don’t like you? So what? You know? Like, if you can let that go, and whatever bad thing’s going to happen, let it happen. You know? Boundaries are so important and the boundary that you put up to protect yourself or to make sure that you are staying in your own lane, doing what’s right for you, that’s healthy, and that is self- love, and that is self-worth. It’s holding yourself accountable.
The only people who are going to get freaked out about you having boundaries is someone who’s enjoying the fact that you didn’t have a boundary. It really does take practice to be comfortable with putting that boundary up, because a lot of people think that setting a boundary is confrontational. I don’t think that it is, I think the boundary is just a gentle reminder, “This is what I need in my life.”
It’s not even personal. It’s just like, this is how my life works.
Let’s say you have a client who is very religious. How does that interface with the way that you teach spirituality?
For me, it’s really about meeting a client where they are, and anything that gives them a grounding, a basis that makes them feel accepted and loved, is a good thing. If religion is working positively in their life, it’s not even a blip on the radar screen for our conversation.
If the religion, though, has tenets and things that this person has to do to try to fit in, or it doesn’t work for them, then it’s important that they work out what fits for them. If that’s the place we’re in, then I will try to help them see they might want to look at what they can do to reclaim their path to happiness. It’s up to them to decide how religion’s working in their lives.
I do try to have a cultural awareness and sensitivity to people that come for a reading and they may have a religion that has certain ideas and they’re living by those tenets. I’m going to respect that.
Spirit wants you to know what’s best for your highest, greatest good, there’s no judgment. There’s no, “You must make this decision.” Whatever decision you make is going to be expansive for you, you’re going to learn something from it. I think religion can work beautifully in people’s lives, it’s meant to be something that really helps you stay connected. In the work I do, a lot of times, people will use the word “God” instead of “Spirit.” Okay, maybe it’s the same thing, it’s fine.
What if somebody comes to you and they say, “Hey, I don’t know what spirituality is, I don’t know what it means, and even when you say there’s me and there’s the Universe, help me make sense of this.” What advice would you maybe have for them?
The best advice I’ve received in my life, bar none, was “be curious.” Right? So, be curious and stay curious. This is really a path to get to know yourself on a more intimate level. And I think that while there are a lot of practices in spirituality that are outside of you, the entire journey is about going inward. You really want to stay curious and go with what feels good. It might feel a little bit unfamiliar but I don’t think the journey, your spiritual journey, is supposed to be painful. I think that there’s this idea that you have to suffer, but that’s really more of a religious ideology.
I think that the suffering that happens in a spiritual journey is you start to get to know yourself, and you really can have moments where you’re having the dark night of the soul. It’s because you’re peeling back the layers. You’re having to forgive yourself, or see some things in a new way, and that can be very painful. I think the spiritual journey is really about getting to know yourself on a deeper level because that’s really the whole spiritual connection: you and life force, or whatever the Universe is.
It’s incredibly personal and individual. I don’t think that there’s any one path forward. I believe that there’s this bigger consciousness that we’re able to tap into, but I don’t believe that it’s got any judgment and I don’t believe that it cares one way or the other if I go to that concert or drink too many beers or make that bad choice; there’s not a judgment.
Does it feel scary or does it feel exciting to think there could be a Source, whatever you want to call it, that just loves you, regardless? Is that God? Okay, cool. Whatever that is, could you hold the belief that maybe there’s this whole situation where no matter what you do, there’s love and no judgment? That’s pretty awesome, and I’m holding out for that. It’s part of my belief system.
We are constantly policing ourselves, we are constantly judging ourselves, and I believe so much of that comes from our God concept.
That’s a lot of weight.
What if you could just put that off to the side, quit carrying it, and figure out for you, what it would be like to stop subscribing to that programming? Would you be more comfortable setting boundaries and putting yourself first? It takes practice to do this because I really believe this is programming, and I don’t mean that like we’re all mindless drones. More like you collect all this as you go. A lot of this is unlearning things, and I think that we do it at our own pace, right? And anytime you will “pop the hood” and do a little check in. Ask yourself, “do I still believe this? Is this still working for me?”
I think that’s really healthy and I think that’s part of a spiritual journey. Go through and start to look at what belief systems you’re holding, and decide if they’re working in your life.
It’s a matter of being able to put the pieces together because so many of us go through this and I think that if we have that spiritual connection the pieces sort of come together as we go.
And encouraging them to stay curious. I was just talking with someone today. She was having a rough moment and we talked about, “Have you ever considered, as crazy as it sounds, giving that grief or that feeling a face, a shape, a color? Sit down on the couch next to this thing, this triangle, whatever it is, and ask, ‘What are you trying to show me? Why do you keep popping up?’”
It’s like a small kid that wants attention that starts off going, “Mom, mom,” and suddenly it’s this huge screaming tantrum in the middle of this grocery store, right? The child wants attention, so a lot of times when our old stuff is coming up, it’s because it wants some attention.
Ask it, “what’s this about? What do you need from me?” Instead of pushing against it so it can come back harder, and stronger. The goal is to get it to a point where the volume gets turned down just enough that you can integrate it back into yourself.
It’s not going to disappear. It’s part of your past. When I use this approach I remember, I’m like one big Jenga. Sorrow, loss, regrets, stupidity, people’s names on these pieces. I’m just one big Jenga thing. Instead of trying to pull out my pieces, only to have me fall to the ground and not know who I am, I’m going to integrate rather than fall apart. I’m going to make peace with the fact that part of the human condition is I’m going to have a rough day, here and there.
I’m not a professional mental health person, I’m just someone who is trying to figure out the puzzle of me. And, in doing so I’m also trying to help other people with their puzzle pieces.
If you stay curious and approach it from “these are interesting data points,” it doesn’t feel so heavy.
Talk to me about data points.
Why do things hurt and why are they painful? Because they’re personal. What happens if they aren’t personal? What if you were able to try a sociological experiment and you just acted as the observer? Instead of judging yourself, how about just observing and taking in data points.
Rather than saying to yourself: “You’re so stupid, why did you eat that again? You’re trying to lose weight and you’re eating this crap.” That inner dialogue is not helping. Instead, what if you simply observed?
At the end of the day you go, “Okay, I have some data. Seems like at about three o’clock, Rosalie has a sugar rush. Good to know.” So now, instead of beating myself up for wanting that candy bar or cup of coffee, which I don’t need at three o’clock, I instead say “I’m noticing some patterns.” Now I have data, it’s not personal, I’m not attacking myself, I’m not sabotaging myself. I can begin to pivot to different choices. I’m a big fan of collecting data and not making it personal. When you make it personal, you never rise above the self-loathing conversation that you have with yourself.